BAILY family of Hall Place
The BAILY family owned Hall Place from 1820 to 1870.
Some detail about the background of the family and their time at Hall Place can be found in Lawrence Biddle’s book “Leigh in Kent 1550-1900” Chapter 15. However, some of the information contained in Biddle’s book has been superseded and the subsequent research has been included in a book which will give further details on Thomas Farmer Baily’s life, his family, extended family and times both at Goose Green/East Dulwich and at Hall Place. This book has been written by Donald Press and a copy has been printed and is in the Society’s archives. However, it can also be read on line by typing in “THOMAS FARMER BAILY – A BIOGRAPHICAL STUDY” and this will take you to The Dulwich Society website. Or link direct here https://www.dulwichsociety.com. You can then go to FEATURES and to the SEARCH button and type in Thomas Baily.
Donald Press became interested in the Baily family through his research into the portrait artist, James Goodsell MIDDLETON. In fact Middleton was a favourite artist for the extended Baily, Arnould and Perkins family and painted Thomas Farmer Baily’s second wife, Gertrude; Dr Joseph Arnould and his third wife, Fanny and his sons Alfred and Sir Joseph Arnould; and also Frederick Perkins. He also painted the recently discovered portrait of the wife of John Walker Baily (2nd cousin 1 removed of Thomas farmer Baily, namely Maryanna (nee Marriott) in 1849 and painted according to the back of the painting at Hall Place.
(Mrs John Walker Baily: painted 1849)
This particular painting has recently been purchased at an auction in New Zealand and the current owner would be happy for the portrait to be passed to a descendant. Therefore, if anyone reads this and would like further information, do please contact the Society.
You can click on the link for a family tree based on information from this new book. A fuller family tree based on research for the above mentioned book is also contained within the book and the Society has a copy.
A brief background here is that the Baily family originally came from Dorset and moved to East Dulwich, becoming involved in ironmongery – very successfully. Thomas Baily Sr was born in 1746 and would die in 1838, aged 92. He was very much involved in the development of East Dulwich. He also purchased lands around the Tonbridge area, including farms, amounting to 324 acres: Stocks Green, Selby’, Webbs and Flying Horse Farm, plus Oak Hill which were leased out. And in 1820 he purchased Hall Place in Leigh (140 acres) for his son, Farmer BAILY (1799-1828), looking for a country ‘seat’ for the family. An inventory in 1833 shows the estate to have held a further 44 acres of woods and farmland and about 12 acres of rented cottages and shops in and around Leigh village. (By 1870, his grandson, Thomas Farmer Baily, had more than doubled the property by buying up the adjacent Clarks Farm and Lucy’s Farm all the way north up to Hildenborough, as well as some land east of that village.)
Farmer BAILY’s son, Thomas Farmer BAILY, was born in 1823 but five years later in 1828 his father succumbed to epilepsy and died aged only 29. He died intestate. His wife, Thomas Farmer BAILY’s mother, Amelia (nee Perkins) remarried in 1832 to William Smith. The early death of Farmer Baily meant there was no Will and this caused problems with regards to the son’s inheritance. However, he would eventually inherit Hall Place when he reached 21 in 1844, along with other lands and the fortune left by his grandfather, Thomas BAILY Sr. (All of Thomas BAILY Sr’s sons had died relatively young) which had left young Thomas Farmer BAILY being the sole grandson and inheritor of the family’s wealth. He would eventually die without issue.
Thomas would marry twice, his first marriage to Eufrosina Falcini would end in divorce in 1862 (a scandal in those days). His second was to Gertrude Sarah Addison in 1863. Thomas would later convert to Catholicism. He eventually sold Hall Place in 1870 to Samuel Morley.
Thomas Farmer Baily died childless aged 52 in 1876, “thus putting an end, in just two generations, to his grandfather’s grand plans for a socially-ascendant dynasty” (Donald Press). A brass tablet to Farmer Baily and his wife was put on the north wall of the chancel when the church was restored (in 1863) to record the fact that the west window of the tower was in their memory. According to Lawrence Biddle (p. 109 Leigh in Kent 1550-1900), the Baily window at the west end of the tower was inserted in 1862. It represents the Nativity, with the three kings bearing gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. Above the three kings there is a gothic church. This may possibly represent the church of St John Evangelist at East Dulwich which had been erected by Thomas F Baily in 1861. If this is so, it follows the mediaeval pattern where a church builder is often depicted with a model of the church he erected. The window was given by Thomas Farmer Baily in memory of his father, Farmer Baily and his mother, Amelia Carolina Sophronia Baily, but as the window was too high to carry a readable inscription, it is recorded in a brass tablet o the north wall of the chancel that the window was erected in 1862 “as a memorial of filial affection by their son Thomas Farmer Baily”. Thomas Farmer Baily would be buried in the family vault in Leigh Churchyard, along with his parents, Farmer Baily and Amelia Carolina Sophronia.
The information that follows is from genealogical searches on various websites undertaken by Joyce Field in 2014. Please contact the Society if you have further information to add on the family.
FINDINGS FROM ANCESTRY (also looked at FindmyPast and Family Search)
Marriage Bond/Allegation (licence):
Thomas Baily of Parish Saint Mary Lambeth Ironmonger and
Elizabeth Smith 18 April 1787
Actual Marriage:
Parish Register of Lambeth St Mary gives:
24 April 1787, Thomas Baily a bachelor, Elizabeth Smith a spinster of the parish: married by licence: in presence of John Gale and James Singleton.
(n.b. could neither Gale nor Singleton marrying a “Smith” at Lambeth – so do not know connection).
BAPTISMS OF CHILDREN TO THOMAS/ELIZABETH:
There are 10 children being baptized at St Mary Lambeth to a Thomas/Elizabeth Bailey between 1779 and 1799. Thomas/Elizabeth did not marry until 1787 (by licence, although no age was given on licence, nor the word ‘minor’ used to refer to Elizabeth), although two of their children are clearly noted as born 1785 (ie. out of wedlock). Thomas Baily was born 1746; Elizabeth Smith was born ca 1757 (according to her death entry, although 1761-66 according to 1841 census). So possible for children to have been born as early as 1779. There is also the baptism of another Elizabeth 16 Dec 1787 (after the birth of Elizabeth 3 Oct 1785 and before her baptism Feb 1788). This is causing confusion and leads one to believe that perhaps there were two couples Thomas/Elizabeth having children at that time.
To date have not managed to discount any of the children as being of “our” Thomas and Elizabeth, nor (with the exception of four children: Thomas 1785, Elizabeth 1785, Jane 1788, Farmer 1799) can I prove the others are of Thomas and Elizabeth. If they had two children out of wedlock, why not the four earlier baptized children, Thomas, Sarah M, George, Elizabeth? And there are Mary Ann and Sarah baptized 1790, 1792: without these two baptisms, there would be a large gap between Jane 1788 and Farmer 1799. (The duplication of Christian names also makes one assume possible early death of a couple).
With the records currently available to search on-line, I have looked at St Mary Lambeth, plus St Giles Camberwell, I can find no marriages of the other six children. Burials online are currently only 1788+ for St Mary Lambeth: searched 1788-1793 and could find no ‘correct’ Baily children; plus also searched the index and there were no children corresponding, having died young. Could also not find marriages for any of them at Lambeth or Camberwell. Of course, they could have married elsewhere; or been buried elsewhere, except that baby Farmer Baily was baptized 1799 at St Mary Lambeth, so would assume any burials would have taken place there too.
CHILDREN BAPT AT LAMBETH ST MARY TO A ‘Thomas Baily/Bailey and Elizabeth’:
Thomas Bailey 19 Dec 1779, son Thomas/Elizabeth (no burial, but burials on-line from 1788 only)
Sarah Mary Bailey bap 15 April 1781 d. Thomas/Elizabeth (no burial, but burials on-line from 1788 only)
George Bailey bap 11 May 1783, son Thomas/Elizabeth (no burial, but burials on-line from 1788 only)
Children bapt. At Lambeth St Mary: after April 1787 marriage:
Elizabeth Bailey bapt 16 Dec 1787 (no birth date)* (no burial, but burials on-line from 1788 only. Did she died 16 Dec-31 Dec?)
Thomas Bailey bapt 1 Feb 1788, born 3 Oct 1785 out of wedlock
Elizabeth Bailey bapt 1 Feb 1788, born 3 Oct 1785* out of wedlock
Jane Bailey bapt 1 Feb 1788 (but no date given, so not a triplet)
Mary Ann Bailey bapt 5 May 1790 (no birth date) (no burial/marriage found)
Sarah Baily, 6 April 1792 (no birth date) (no burial/marriage found)
Farmer Bailey 17 July 1799 (no birth date given)
We know from marriages that Thomas Baily and Elizabeth definitely had four children:
Elizabeth (Smith) Baily (1785)
Thomas (Smith) Baily (1785)
Jane Baily (1788)
Farmer Baily (1799
Found a burial: Mary Baily (not Bailey) at Camberwell St Giles 14 Aug 1797 (no age given)
MARRIAGES
Camberwell, St Giles
Elizabeth SMITH Baily and Joseph Arnould
By licence 6.9.1811
Presence: Mary Farmer, Thomas SMITH Baily, Thomas Baily, E Baily
(So both Elizabeth and Thomas – born before marriage and baptized Elizabeth/Thomas Baily: at some point they must have decided to add the SMITH name)
Southwark St Saviour
Jane Baily of St Giles Camberwell and Alfred Thrale Perkins, church by licence with consent of Thomas Baily her natural and lawful father, 30 June 1807, in presence of: Thomas Baily, John Perkins, Henry Perkins, Charles Banley, Eliz Baily, Amelia Perkins.
1841 CENSUS Goose Green, Camberwell
Elizabeth Bailey 80 indep NO (so aged bet. 80 and 85, so born between 1861 and 1866)*
Elizabeth Stevens 35 F.S.
*(we do not know where Elizabeth was born: census says NO – not born county – so not born Surrey, and maiden name Smith would make it virtually impossible to locate without further information. Marriage was via Bond/Allegation but no age given, also did not say ‘minor’: age found at burial entry for Camberwell St Giles of Elizabeth Baily burial, “of East Dulwich”, aged 85. )
Parish Register of Lambeth St Mary gives the marriage: 24 April 1787, he a bachelor, she a spinster of the parish: married by licence: in presence of John Gale and James Singleton. (n.b. could find that neither married a “Smith” at Lambeth – so do not know connection).
Will 5 Sept 1876 (effects under £8000)
Will of William BAILY died 24 June 1876 Standen, proved by Charles Baily and Henry Baily, the brothers and Walker Baily nephew of Denmark Hill and William Henry Baily nephew of 71 Gracechurch St
So William Baily had brothers John Walker (d.1873), Charles d. 1878 and also Henry Baily of 71 Gracechurch Street. (The two nephews are sons of John Walker Baily).
Will of Thomas Baily 1838, probate 11/1896/515
Died Camberwell 1838 (source via sjmacintosh** on ancestry.com). We DO NOT have a copy of the WILL. It would be useful to clarify what children were still alive in 1838.
Will of Thomas Farmer Baily died 8 May 1876, Will 15 July 1876
effects under £30,000
Other findings:
Elizabeth Baily died Camberwell 31.7.1842: buried St Giles: of “East Dulwich” aged 85, buried 9 Aug 1842 (this gives birth year of 1757)
Thomas Smith Baily died 22 Mar 1819: (source: ancestry via SJmackintosh** (descendant))
Marriage: Farmer Baily esq and Amelia Carolina Sophronia Perkins by Licence 23 Dec 1822, witnesses: Henry Perkins and A G Perkins
Death of Thomas Baily given in Evening Standard 19 May 1838: Death 11 May of Thomas Baily of East Dulwich aged 92.
Wills: of Hugh John Baily dated 23 Feb 1753 Dorset: Wills in the Peculiar of Gt Canford & Poole from 1650; Archdeaconry Court of Dorset of the late Diocese of Bristol 1660-1792.
Baily, Hugh 23 Feb 1763, 16 Dec 1763 John, son. (Will available to order on line)
FindmyPast has DORSET parish registers:
Hugh Baily, son of Hugh/Mary bapt 27 Oct 1738 Canford Magna
Hugh Baily, son of Hugh/Mary bapt 26 Mar 1809, Canford
Search finds no Thomas/Farmer born at Canford, or elsewhere in Dorset at relevant time.
FamilySearch: cannot find any of the earlier Bailys being baptized Dorset or London, prior to Thomas Farmer Baily son of Farmer Baily/Amelia.
Of course, this could just mean that the records are not available on these websites at the moment.
**(SJMacintosh found in member’s trees on Ancestry as researching Baily. Have not made contact ).
Joyce Field (updated June 2025)